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May 27 12 4:49 AM
Seriously it's like some "It's a Wonderful Life!" shit here. I mean, 5E is the angel come to show me what things would be like without 4E - I mean, I'd been thinking about how 5E might replace 4E, how maybe I'd just jump off the bridge 4E-wise, or how I might go to an OSR game, but 5E is really reminding me that this is not what I want! 4E is beautiful! Look at all the wonderful memories! Happy Fighters and Rogues grinning at their effectiveness, parties which don't have even one Cleric (let alone two!) yet work just as well, Wizards who are terrifyingly effective yet don't one-shot encounters whilst the party twiddles their thumbs, and so on.
May 27 12 2:53 PM
metaphysician wrote:I think its a mix:1. They are still trying to maintain deliberate incompatibility between editions, in the foolhardy belief that they can force people to rebuy all their books again
metaphysician wrote:2. They are absolutely unwilling to admit that moving away from 3e and the OGL was anything less than a brilliant move
May 27 12 3:13 PM
May 27 12 3:30 PM
metaphysician wrote:Actually, I think ditching the OGL is the reason they did 4e. Yes, it helped them achieve massive popularity. . . but I think someone inside WotC looked at all those third party materials, and got greedy. Instead of looking at how much money they were making, they decided that all those 3rd party supps were "stealing" sales from WotC products. So, clearly, if you get rid of all that stuff, all those people buying them will spend the same money on WotC books.Basically, its like when Apple killed the Mac clones in the 90s, except that Apple had a good reason for it ( they subsidize software prices with hardware sales ). WotC did it out of counterproductive greed.
May 27 12 6:02 PM
Scorpion13 wrote:metaphysician wrote:Actually, I think ditching the OGL is the reason they did 4e. Yes, it helped them achieve massive popularity. . . but I think someone inside WotC looked at all those third party materials, and got greedy. Instead of looking at how much money they were making, they decided that all those 3rd party supps were "stealing" sales from WotC products. So, clearly, if you get rid of all that stuff, all those people buying them will spend the same money on WotC books.Basically, its like when Apple killed the Mac clones in the 90s, except that Apple had a good reason for it ( they subsidize software prices with hardware sales ). WotC did it out of counterproductive greed.Dude, show me ONE media company that doesnt cannibalize its whole marketing strategy out of greed to get those last few dollars. This happens over and over again. THEY NEVER LEARN.Something tells me this might be the big one. The one where WOTC really slips up.
May 27 12 10:28 PM
Phrozen wrote:DC actually. When City of Heroes came out there was a big brouhaha about how you could create copyrighted characters down to almost exactly the same costume and everything. Marvel threw a fit and sued, then got stomped down when it was revealed that it was Marvel employees making said characters for the most part. DC's response was 'Hey free advertising'.
May 27 12 11:54 PM
May 28 12 2:54 AM
May 28 12 3:47 AM
Crinos wrote:Yeah, look at what happened to HTML comics, where basically every comic company out there formed a lawyer legion of doom to sue that poor guy into oblivion. Course, despite his claims, the legality of that whole setup was suspect from the get go. So there you go.
May 30 12 2:05 AM
OSH (KrinnNote: OSH is Old School Hack) delivers on all of Next's promises in greater abundance.Reign does better than 5e in the epic story arena, the D&D boardgames offer a better dungeoncrawl experience, Savage Worlds has a lower barrier to entry, and Pathfinder has been catering to the 3x crowd for years now.Every edition of Hackmaster "feels" more like D&D than AD&D ever did. And if you want gritty salt-of-the-earth heroes there's always WHFRP. And if you want that salt complimented with contemporary design, there's WHFRP3.My point here is that D&D has been slacking at being D&D. When you hold a cut-and-paste of D&D's first 27 years against any of these, it really starts to show its age.D&D Next was a slow candy pitch that should have been knocked out of the park - but a chorus of disenfranchised coaches were screaming for a bunt and that's all we got.
Jun 2 12 4:27 AM
Jun 2 12 5:02 PM
Jun 2 12 5:05 PM
Scorpion13 wrote:Am I crazy? It really does seem that EVERYONE is hating on this edition change. Even back with 4E and before that the 3E changes had a sizeable contingent defending the idea of a new edition.
Jun 2 12 11:29 PM
Jun 3 12 1:54 AM
Jun 13 12 1:57 AM
D&D was having troubleWhat a sad, sad storyNeeded a new edition to restoreIts former gloryWhere, oh where, was it?Where could we-find-a hit?We looked around and then we foundThe edition sure to fitAnd now it's...Springtime for Mearls and D&DGrognards are happy and gay!We're marching along Gary's paths!Look out, here comes 32d20 rats!Springtime for Mearls and D&DRoleplaying, not Rollplaying, once moreSpringtime for Mearls and D&DRepublishing old settingsAnd this time we'll be faithful to loreSpringtime for Mearls and D&DWinter for 4urries and FunSpringtime for Mearls and D&D!Come on Grognards now walk out in the sun!-If its a storygame then I have shunned it und that is why they call me Pundit.-Don't be stupid, be a star! Come and join the OSR!The Designer is coming, the Designer is coming, the Designer is coming!-Hi Mearls!-Hi Mearls!-Hi Mearls!-Hi Mearls!Hi myself,Hi to me,I'm the lout,Who's out to go back in game design historyHi myself,Raise your handThere's no finerDesigner in the land!Everything I do, I do for you- Yes you do!If you're looking for a dungeon, here's module B2Hi myself,Raise your pipe- Old english blend!Ev'ry hotsy-totsy Grognard stand and gripe-Hooray!-Ev'ry rapey-grapey GrognardHi myself!-Ev'ry dummy-sunny Grognard...stand and gripe!MEARLS:I was just a game designerOf the Rules Cyclopedia an avid readerGot a phone call from the OfficeTold me I was project leader!Grognards were blue!What, oh, what to do?Picked up my pen,And pandered to them!Now D&D's smiling through!Oh It ain't no mysteryIf its marketing or product historyAll you gotta realizeEverything is plagerizedHi to myselfWatch my shit-showI'm the Grognard's DaVinci doncha knowWe are going back editionsIts like Gary's Old rendition!Oh everyone say hi to meWonderful me!And now it's...Springtime, for Mearls, and D&DWe've preserved Gary's Legacy,Invisible wizards shooting fireballs from the sky againD&D is on the rise again!Springtime, for Mearls, and D&DFighters, are useless, once more!Springtime, for Mearls, and D&D!Means that soon we'll be goingWe've got to be goingYou know we'll be bankrupt, once more
Jun 28 12 10:03 PM
Jun 28 12 10:42 PM
Demonicuss Krinn wrote:One of the DnD Next blogs talked about the Tactical Fighting Module, and a early-draft of the combat subsystem.Anyone can pull off a maneuver along with their attack, provided they take a penalty to the attack roll. Examples given was a -2 penalty to add +4 to damage, and -5 to Knockdown (provided they have 2 legs, 4 legged critters get -10). Fighters, from what I read, don't get penalties.Again, reading SA and RPG.net, it ain't looking good. Another nail in the coffin of 4e-style gameplay.Fuckin' grogs. Good thing I have Hell on Earth:Reloaded to read through
Jun 28 12 10:54 PM
Jun 28 12 11:13 PM
Demonicuss Krinn wrote:I mainly got hooked on RPGs by Deadlands/Savage Worlds, but the more I read on DnDNext, the less I seem to like.As I posted prior, Next seems to be the first edition to not improve and innovate, but is a running leap backwards to try to win back the gamers who left for Pathfinder/OSR/etc. And part of that, apparently, is to get rid of/ignore the innovations 4e brought to the table. Yeah, if you want an edition that appeals to fans of all editions, go ahead and use the best parts of all editions.
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